In Nicaragua, can Chinese move the canal, avoid Rio San Juan, and still play golf?

Will the canal route end up in the Rio San Juan? HKND and government insist it won't, but they're running out of real estate if they want to move the canal south and still play golf

The Sandinista's canal spokesman says the route is being moved south, but how far south will it go?

The Sandinista's canal spokesman says the route is being moved south, but how far south will it go?

Adding a wrinkle of confusion to a mystery shrouded in doubt, a spokesman for the Chinese canal in Nicaragua announced that the route has been redrawn to circumvent a farming community that has been energetically protesting the $50 billion project for months.

Nicaraguan canal spokesman Telemaco Talavera announced last weekend that the canal route has been pushed south to sidestep the community of El Tule and the protected San Miguelito wetlands on the eastern shore of Lake Nicaragua. The decision, Talavera said, was made to avoid environmental and social problems associated with the original route. We’ll have to take his word for it, since the original canal route and environmental impact studies were never made public.

But instead of assuaging Nicaraguans’ concerns about the megaproject, the offhand nature of the announcement has only heightened fears that Sandinista officials aren’t giving appropriate seriousness of purpose to the so-called “biggest infrastructure project in the history of humanity.”

“Together with all the other anomalies related to this megaproject, now we have this erratic type of communication about the canal,” said Nicaraguan environmental lawyer Monica López Baltodano, who has been active in coordinating many of the 18 protest marches against the canal over the past six months. She said while the Chinese concessionaires quietly circulate documents and maps that aren’t available to public scrutiny, the Nicaraguan spokesman announces changes to the secretive plans without offering any specific details.

“This just generates more uncertainty and rejection and demonstrates the lack of seriousness in the management of this project,” López said.

Talavera did not answer his phone or respond to requests for comment.

Historically, surveyors have identified six possible canal routes across Nicaragua.

6 routesTo avoid problems with Costa Rica and pushback from Nicaraguan environmentalists, the Chinese concessionaire and Sandinista government quickly ruled out any route that would use the natural waterway of the San Juan River, considered the “backbone” of Nicaragua’s national identity.

The Chinese then whittled down the list to two possible routes — #3 and #4, for those of you playing along at home — before eventually deciding on the southernmost path (#4 on your scorecards).

3-4

Alas and alack, that route would push more water through the town of El Tule than the residents there are comfortable with. So they protested, and the police beat them up.

Now, according to Talavera, the route will be diverted further south. That might sound like good news until you rub your eyes and squint at the map and wonder where, precisely, the Chinese hope to ram their canal through to the lake — especially considering that they’re planning to build a “Golf Theme Resort” in the same area.

Golf

Since there’s no one to ask, humor me while I ponder this en voz alta.

There are about 30 kilometers of land separating El Tule from San Carlos, which sits on the head of the San Juan River. So technically, an 11-kilometer wide canal zone could fit through the area— albeit snugly with a golf course (“Hey, better make that a Par 3, Wang”).

Tule to San Carlos

But there doesn’t appear to be a whole lot of wiggle room before you bump into San Carlos. That’s why the original options for proposed canal routes included the odd-looking Route #5, which takes a rather extreme dogleg south and dumps into the Rio Juan River between El Castillo and San Carlos.

Will the canal end up getting built along the unlikely Route #5?

Will the canal end up getting built along the unlikely Route #5?

The government and HKND categorically deny that the canal will touch the river. But if they want to push Route #4 south, they might not be able to avoid getting their feet wet, especially if they hope to keep their tee time.

related: 6 things you need to know about Nicaragua’s big dumb canal project.

  • Pepe Turcon

    Last week I sent a letter to Manuel Coronel, head of the Nic. Canal development.

    I have worked with friends from Germany and Japan on the construction of a magnetic band 100 mts wide and from Puerto Cabezas in the Atlantic to Puerto Sandino (ex Somoza ) on the Pacific. This magnetic band would originate 50 ft deep into both oceans and would allow any ship to magnetically hold and flow in either direction (Much like the system already used on several high speed trains).
    Once the ship is over the magnetic band a very small force could pull the ship (remember how in several inland canals in Europe ships are pulled by donkeys)

    We are still holding conversations on this matter and believe together with the high tech from Germany and Japan plus the Chinese innovations, it can be done in 7 years.

    The main problem, if you can believe this, comes from a high ranking Chinese official who still insists we are all breaking the purpose of why the great Chinese wall was built and that the Chinese may come to regret if this immense fact is forgotten.

    Will keep you informed!

    • itaia

      The Wang group’s response to the “concern” of the U.S. Embassy can be searched by typing sentence: HKND GROUP RESPONDS TO STATEMENT ON JAN 6/15 BY U.S. EMBASSY IN NICARAGUA.

  • itaia

    The Chinese built railroad lines across whole nations in Africa. And the most extensive and most modern high-speed railroad network across continental-sized China and over mountains to the world’s highest plateau to Lhasa in Tibet. The Chinese “can do”: Singapore was a squalid tropical port in South East Asia, ruled by Britain. The Chinese LEE KUAN YEW , an Oxford trained lawyer, became the first leader of independent Singapore (now it is his son). LEE KUAN YEW – ruled as iron-fisted autocrat of the “Father knows best!” type, and he did not hesitate to play rough with obstacles of the opposition . But the population of Singapore – of Chinese, Indian and Malayan ancestry, now live in an ultramodern, high income, full employment nation, which attracts Americans and Europeans with financial and banking background.

    • gcblues

      hahahahahahahaha. go visit some empty cities.

      • itaia

        Get a world map and check where Singapore is located: It is in South East Asia – near Malasya and Indonesia. You could not afford to buy or rent an apartment in Singapore – it’s full house and no non-millionaires need apply. —- As for mainland China – better to have half-full brand new highrise developments then having people living on the street as in many U.S. cities because they can’t afford even to rent..

        • gcblues

          not half full. empty. plenty of poverty in China. let me know when Italy get’s it’s trash picked up.

          • itaia

            What does Italy have to do with the canal in Nicaragua ? What has poverty in China have to do with the canal in Nicaragua ? What does the poverty in Nicaragua have to do with the USA ? Read wikipedia “History Timeline Nicaragua” from 1900 and come to a conclusion about the impact of the permanent actions of the USA against all Nicaraguans. —- U.S. Marine Corps General SMEDLEY BUTLER may provide you a clue: “I was muscle-man for Wallstreet in Central America and made it safe for American banks…” He also was American muscle-man during the same period against China. He also exposed how American business profited from World War One: “War is a racket!” Among other things, the U.S. sold 600,000 horses to the military of Britain and France. By the way – a lot of the real fighting in France was done by African muslims from Senegal a French colony, and hindus and muslims from British India. (Read Smedley Butler’s wikipedia profile).

          • gcblues

            what do your silly posts have to do with anything? you cite Italian sources. thebenevolent economic power of china. the investors of Europe. i refute that stupidity. hey you got almost 200 billion into Greece, hows it working out for ya? lolol. smedley is long gone.

          • Mitchell

            Itaia, great comment! Smedley Butler should have a monument in his honor. When the power brokers of the time plotted to kill Roosevelt, they tried to enlist Smedley Bulter to oversee a military force of 500,000 to overthrow the United States Government. Bulter went along with it long enough to find who the players were and then informed Roosevelt. He was a true patriot! His career ended shortly thereafter and his reputation soiled. Although I became aware of Bulters action some years back; I recently watched a video named from JFK to 911/ Rich mans game that includes some of what Butler did. Again, he was a true patriot!

          • itaia

            Between you and me: Bobby Kennedy tried to help the opposition against the. Somozas who would have killed the leaders Jan.21.1967, but the U.S. Dept. of State, which always protected Somoza in Washington, knew that Bobby Kennedy was watching and would hold them liable if Somoza would have killed the leaders of the opposition.

          • gcblues

            what a load of BS. you sound more like Morris with every post.

          • Mitchell

            I appreciate the depth of your knowledge.

          • Mitchell

            Also, I made a mistake in the movie title I posted. It is “rich mans trick”, not game. Sorry.

          • herman

            sooo American imperialism = bad, Chinese imperialism = good. got it.

    • dalepues

      If they’re so good at building railroads perhaps they should consider building one across Nicaragua instead of a canal.

      • Marwinyah Peazo

        HKND will also build railroads and pipeline with the canal. Also resorts, casino, airport, cement factory, etc.

        The Western powers gave financial aid to NGOs in Africa.

        While China built roads, bridges, stadium, schools, hospitals, ports, rails and did I say roads?

        These infrastructure building projects made the difference where the West failed. The Chinese are doing exactly the same pattern on building road projects in Latin America.

        “If you want to rise out of poverty, you first have to build roads”. — Ancient Chinese proverb (similar thought from Ancient Rome)

        This kind of debate already happened in Africa:

        http://youtu.be/qHEpsXmmD48

        • itaia

          The U.S. and NATO European NGOs donate millions to developing nations (for geopolitical influence) – but cost billions in stalled or sabotage development. The Belo Monte Hydroelectric Dam in Brazil was stalled by the U.S which uses German and British NGOs in Brazil. Every government in Brazil since 1970 wanted the dam (military, conservative, social democrats, center-left) , in the 1990 the Brazilians were even prohibited from technical studies for the dam. But after Lula in 2011 – the project began and is now nearing completion – but behind schedule and over budget because of the legal suits by foreign NGOs: See the list of U.S. NGOs in the intelligence document CONVERSA AFIADA ABIN ONGS. Bill Clinton and his NGO “Clinton Global Initiatives” are on the list, together with AVAAZ which works with the Danish “IBIS” that leads in Nicaragua the subversion against the government and the canal project. “IBIS” was expelled from Bolivia 2013 for conspiracy. The German government finances “IBIS” together with “soures ” in Finland, Luxemburg, Switzerland, Netherland. Nicaragua is under siege by NATO operations – like the all of “independent” Latin America.

      • itaia

        Container ships can carry larger loads then railroads with less stress and strain long the path: One reason for the canal are the new post panamax container ships which can carry each up to 12,000 containers. Even the newly enlarged Panama canal cannot handle them. One problem for U.S. exports, especially from the East Coast and Gulf ports to Asia – is that those mega freighters could not be used because of the limited Panama canal. Plus the railroads towards the U.S. West Coast are already running over their capacity. As in passenger rail – the U.S. is not the cutting edge on rail technology. The Chinese use the rail technology from Japan, German and France. The biggest obstacle for a rail link across Nicaragua: It makes no sense to unload the ship on the Pacific Coast, load the containers it on trains, then reload the containers on the Caribbean Coast on another ship.

        • dalepues

          So you’re really all for this canal. You’ll have to excuse me for asking if you have an interest in seeing the canal built. Are you being paid to promote the canal? Maybe you’ve already mentioned that in an earlier comment and I missed it.

          • itaia

            My specialty is watching the “activists” of European NGOs that are subverting in Latin America against the independence of nations in Latin America (also in some cases nations in Africa and Asia).The observation is strictly on the internet. I do that pro bono and strictly as one single private individual. Nicaragua is just one of the nations and the canal is one of the issues. Other long struggles involve the Belo Monte Hydroelectric Dam in Brazil, also the Tipnis highway in Bolivia, the Yasuni issue in Ecuador, the Port Rocha in Uruguay, development projects in Mozambique, the Kundankulam nuclear energy project in India. Very few people can “afford” that because it costs time and requires linguistic knowledge. Example: The Danish NGO “IBIS” which leads the subversion in Nicaragua against the government and which DIRECTS the violent resistance and legal challenges against the canal – had already been expelled from Bolivia in 2013 for the identical “conspiration ” against the Tipnis highway. Since the 1990’s the “contras” against Latin America do no longer come armed from “Miami”, but instead as “activists” of European NGOs: Europeans arouse no suspicion and subversion today is done under the guise of “helping campesinos”, “preserving the environment”, “protecting the indigenous” – while in Europe ethnic minorities, such as the 11 million Romas (Gyspies) are persecuted in many NATO “partner” nations, and while the Europeans continue to intervene in Asia, Africa and Latin America just as during the colonial era: Then it was for “protection” now for “security partnership”. Latin Americans are not intervening or meddling in Europe or North America…

  • Ken Morris

    I have long thought that the Rio San Juan was a sensible–perhaps the most sensible–Atlantic access, and suspected that this is what was behind the flap with Costa Rica. Alas, Costa Rica refused to deal, even to talk, so Wang and his engineers (?) moved northward. Now they’re veering southward, no real surprise.

    The question in my mind is whether Costa Rica will yet talk (and deal). It would be a win-win-win if Costa Rica did come on board. Not only would it be a win for both Nicaragua and Costa Rica (which so far is defiantly defending a mosquito-infested swamp mainly used by drug traffickers), but it would also be a win for the rest of us, since getting Costa Rica involved would compel some transparency.

    The unknown is the political climate and frankly horse sense of the politicians in Costa Rica. The country is swimming in red ink, so much so that a “structural adjustment” with “austerity” is on the near-term horizon–and it has to do something. It won’t sell oil or mining rights, which may actually be bad deals in the long run, and doesn’t have any other economic development plan. The gift horse of joint development of the Rio San Juan with Chinese money has been offered to it, admittedly abrasively, by Nicaragua, but so far it has refused. I fear it has refused mainly out of a misplaced feeling of superiorty toward Nicaragua. However, if President Solís can swallow a little nationalistic pride (although I’m sure that Danny will offer some face-saving ways for Costa Rica to avoid humiliating itself), we’ve got a win-win-win.

    In my opinion, the ball has always been in Costa Rica’s court. It can do the right thing and make this deal work for everybody, or it can continue to strut around arrogantly believing it’s better than Nicaragua. Thus far it hasn’t done the right thing, but it looks like there might be a final opportunity to snag victory from the jaws of defeat.

    • jahjan

      Ken – a canal built by a foreign entity that is uncommunicative, ethereal, backed by a fanatic-led, undemocratic political regime that decimates farms, habitats, families, is NOT a win for anyone.

      • Ken Morris

        I understand there are reasons to have reservations about the canal, even to oppose it, but decimating farms and families is not among them, in my opinion.

        The extreme poverty rate in rural Nicaragua currently approaches 40 percent of the population. What this measure means is that 40 percent of the Nicas living in these areas are malnourished. Forget education, health care, and quality of life issues, this many rural Nicas are literally starving.

        My inference is therefore that farms and families in rural Nicaragua are already decimated, and I don’t understand why anyone would favor preserving this kind of extreme poverty.

        Despite how it may sometimes appear, I’m hardly in love with the canal project. In fact, I don’t particularly like it, much less how the powers that be are mishandling it. I wish there were a better way to generate economic development in Nicaragua. However, what I’m not hearing from any opponents of the canal is any better economic development idea, and preserving extreme poverty is not to my mind a goal anyone can favor.

        • jahjan

          I can think of a number of ways to decrease poverty – create community farms, on land provided, loaned or leased by the gov’t, funded by either micro or macro loans – or grants, where communities raise items to sell either in-country or to export – like produce, fresh and dried, exportable crafts and useful handcrafted items. Factories owned by workers. All those ideas we dare not talk about!

          • Ken Morris

            I totally agree, and wish we (or more realistically those in power) would talk about them. Right now we have a canal or nothing on the table. Put a third option on the table and I personally would probably take it.

          • gcblues

            yeah, that is the ticket, turn Nicaragua into another Cuba, that will work.

          • jahjan

            Obstinate, backward, Republican-type thinking of course would hinder these ideas from working, but it could be done democratically. How much did Cuba export during the Castro years?

          • gcblues

            i am anti-collectivist as it does not contort with human nature. if it did it would be working somewhere on a large scale. if that is backwards, and social democratic collectivism is forwards, you favor mass suicide as it is imploding all around you.

          • jahjan

            From an excellent article with good links (http://www.wired.com/2014/02/nicaragua-canal/):
            “There’s also no geographic advantage to a canal in Nicaragua, Rodrigue says. The few hundred miles shaved off major shipping routes between Asia and North America would be balanced out by longer transit times through a canal that’s more than three times as long as its competitor in Panama.
            All in all, Rodrigue says, “At this point in time, from a commercial standpoint, this project does not make sense.” ”

            The article also has this to say:
            “But even the economic benefits aren’t
            guaranteed. The Panama canal celebrates its 100th birthday this year,
            and it’s nearing the end of a $5.25 billion expansion project. When the
            new and improved canal opens early next year, it will allow ships with
            three times the cargo capacity to pass through, and it will handle up to
            16,000 ships a year, roughly a 15 to 20 percent increase, says
            Jean-Paul Rodrigue, an expert on transportation economics at Hofstra
            University. “It’s going to take a while for this capacity to be
            absorbed, if it ever is,” Rodrigue says. “In the medium term, there will
            not be a need for another canal.” ”
            My primary concern is a consumer culture that destroys the health of Mother Earth.

          • commonsensecanadian

            Or build a railroad across Nica, with a container port at each end. This proposal is called a “dry canal”. A fraction of the cost, and probably more permanent jobs.

          • gcblues

            correct. 2 rail lines and 2 pipelines with a hub between Granada and Managua with 2 automated container ports like Miami could move more faster and cheaper than a canal. the obvious disadvantage, less land grabbing. transport in and out of Nicaragua is and has been a large obstacle. the canal does not help that. what it adds it balances with north south transport loss.

          • erictan

            I like the way you think.

    • Macho

      …. but Costa Rica do not want a Canal & Nicaragua does not need it (this is only for the profit of some Chinese & the Ortega’s family). … If you want a Canal, why not do it in the Rio Grande between Mexico & the US, there already have the bridges and will stop the drugs etc.etc. (the Countries will not be cut in two like in Nicaragua)

      • gcblues

        thanx for the humor, the Rio Grande is just as insane as the Rio San Juan.

        would like Tim Rogers to do a little investigative reporting on the viability of bridging this canal. since China and Nicaragua are not communicative. re: this issue in any detail. maybe you could speak to some firms not party to this that build bridges and discuss what they would need to look like, how to operate, cost, and maybe some examples around the world. as the canal level is not below the land routes in elevation as in Panama there are specific problems to explore. like to see what you could dig up. maybe you have seen the spiral bridge in China?

    • gcblues

      1. your opinion of Costa Rica vs. Nicaragua is ludicrous. move here if they are so backwards and Nicaragua is so erudite. that Costa Rica is an imploding social democracy only speaks to it being further along the same path the Nicaraguan government desires. all government is corrupt. ALL.

      2. destroying the Rio San Juan which is far more than a skeeter swamp with a canal that will never pencil is hilarious. can you even build a model car? anything?

      3. so Costa Rica is at fault for Nicaragua’s incursion and confiscation of land south of the San Juan? Costa Rica is overly nationalistic for defending their property not with arms but international court action? stop with the alternative history already.

      4. all business in China is GOE at one level or another. they, the Chinese government under which no company can operate in any manner without their approval, have no interest in a canal or for that matter a road to Limon. the canal will work better than the Stadium in San Jose maybe? lol. in your last breath maybe will you awaken and decry the lack of a practical life? read China’s own news releases as to their geopolitical plans. read up on the history of geopolitical projection. Read China’s history, particularly note the peak of the Ming Dynasty circa 1600. then re-evaluate the motives of the 3 parties you write as if you know so well.

      5. Tim just poses more of the open unanswered questions due to lack of transparency and the obvious problems of viability. there is nothing left to say re: the article, or the canal. i object to you proposing things that are destructive, impractical and do nothing but entice the uneducated.

    • mitchell lowell

      Ken, it is my understanding that Costa Rica has no say in the canal project what so ever. Costa Rica has challenged Nicaragua’s sovereignty on the Rio San Juan through international bodies that have determined the RSJ are within Nicaragua’s boarders, and not within Costa Rica’s. The same body also said that the RSJ is to be available to Costa Rica as a navigable body of water, and marine food supply. It would seem that if this route is chosen that there are concerns to be met to provide Costa Rica what rights of use they have, but nothing else. I own 25 acres of land just east of El Castillio where I am developing a hardwood plantation along with other crops. I knew there was a possibility of the RSJ being used for a canal project when I purchased this property. We will all have to wait and see.

      • Ken Morris

        Thanks, Mitchell. You are right, Costa Rica has no say in a canal built in Nicaragua. My thinking has just been that if Costa Rica wanted to partner with Nicaragua for development along the Rio San Juan (whether for a canal or anything else) there is a deal to be had. Thus far, of course, Costa Rica has expressed zero interest, and has even gone on the offense against Nicaragua, which didn’t exactly ask nicely to begin with, so I see no deal in the works. Even so, it’s such a promising area for joint development that a change of tone in both countries could result in one being hammered out.

        • herman

          Hi Ken, From what I can tell your tentative support for the canal project centres around nebulous promises of employment and wealth creation. What sort of opportunities for long term employment will come from this canal? Im genuinely curious. Poverty in Panama sits at 30% despite having had a canal there for a century. Are you convinced by Ortega’s economic growth plan? Does he have one that demonstrates exactly how the canal will create long term job growth in Nicaragua? Furthermore, do you think HKND will make an effort to employ Nicaraguan workers over the long term, or will they import much of their labour as they have done in Africa? (“they” being chinese dev. projects, not HKND in particular)

          • Ken Morris

            Thanks, Herman. You are right that my support for the canal is both tentative and dependent upon the promise that it will create employment and wealth. You are also right, I believe, to raise questions about whether a canal or HKND is the best or even a good way to generate employment and wealth.

            Unfortunately, as is frequently pointed out here, I know nothing about canal economics, so am not a good one to address these questions. However, out of curiosity I did spend some time googling the economics of Panama and its canal.

            One thing I discovered, which answers your first question, is that a canal would seem to offer lots of long term employment opportunities in adjacent industries such as storage, hospitality, and finance. Even if no Nica ever works for the canal itself (a bit of a stretch) a canal will nevertheless create jobs in spin-off businesses. For what the comparison is worth, I read that three-quarters of Panama’s workforce is employed in the service sector, presumably a good portion of that canal related, its unemployment rate is currently a bit over 4%, and its per capita GDP is around 4-5 times higher than Nicaragua’s. Compared to Nicaragua, Panama’s employment situation is pretty good.

            However, I also read that, yes, the poverty rate remains high in Panama (almost but not quite 30%) and extreme poverty is almost half as high. These are better numbers than Nicaragua’s, but still quite high. Moreover, as in Nicaragua, poverty in Panama tends to be concentrated in rural areas.

            I have to make some inferences here, but it would seem logical to infer that although Panama’s canal provides a lot of Panamanians with good economic opportunities, it doesn’t offer the rural poor the same opportunities. Guesses for why this is would be that in addition to their geographic isolation and cultural uniqueness (many of Panama’s rural poor are part of indigenous groups), Panama’s rural poor lack both the language abilities and educational backgrounds to make use of the opportunities. If true, this could very well be the outcome of a canal in Nicaragua too. However, it would seem that the bulk of the blame for the exclusion of the rural poor from canal opportunies should be pinned on the government rather than the canal. Governments, not canals, run the public schools, and when canals and the adjacent businesses pay their taxes, it’s not their fault that governments don’t spend the revenues to adequately prepare the poor for the jobs the canal creates.

            This said, I don’t see a canal as a panacea for Nicaragua, and in fact in an ideal world would much prefer different economic development initiatives. To my mind, the worst thing about a canal in Nicaragua is that if successful it will attract a global class of financiers and tycoons into the country. Forget the Chinese laborers who may do the actual construction, long term the country will be overrun with foreigners from everywhere, each with their fingers in the pie. I wonder how much will be left for the Nicas, and whether a dual class system will emerge in which the Nicas are on the bottom. As a rule, foreign-owned mega-projects are not ideal anywhere, much less in poor countries. It would really be better if instead of one $50 billion canal there could be 500 locally-owned million-dollar businesses.

            However, this being the real world, I don’t see where the investment capital for 500 or even 50 locally-owned million-dollar businesses is going to come from. And the alternatives I see, chiefly foreign-owned resorts, strike me as worse for Nicaragua than a canal.

            You though raise important questions that I wish would be discussed more than they have been. Most of the criticism of the canal project has focused on the means by which it is being carried out, and secondarily on its feasibility. I’m curious about what the trade offs might be for Niacaragua even with a successful canal. My guess is that the trade offs are worth it, but I’m only guessing.

  • itaia

    An Italian correspondent (working for Italian news agencies) who resides in Nicaragua publishes a news blog (which shall not be mentioned here because it would be impolite), has published the full reply of the Hon Kong based company to the “concerned” U.S. Embassy. It is a highly professional response which outlines the whole range of technical and financial discussions and disclosures which the developer made and has had during 2013. The list involves the top level international financial regulation agencies and the top level scientific organizations. The discussions and disclosures were obviously known to U.S. authorities, including the U.S. Dept. of State and available to the U.S. Embassy in Managua, because U.S. representatives are members of those institutions and organizations. Thus, the “concern” of the U.S. Embassy about the “lack of information” is obviously very “interesting”! Another blog in Europe published the names of the Nicaraguan engineering companies who are already participating in the initiation of the project, and who furnish the construction workers already shown in the news media.

    • jahjan

      itaia- why not post the link for the correspondent’s reply? I would be interested to read it.
      Thanks.

      • itaia

        The Italian correspondent (Trucci) published the reply (on his blog) of the Hon Kong canal development company to the U.S. Embassy. I do not work for anybody’s public relations: I am only interested (pro bono) in a good future for Nicas and helping to expose foreign NGOs who are the new “contras”, all over Latin America: They bring millions, but cost billions in lost development. The canal would mean the great historic development opportunity. You might be able to find the developer’s reply on their company web site, it had been written by top class professionals, very impressive.

        • jahjan

          Hi Ataia – I’m really a bit in the dark about what to Google to find this document – and I can’t seem to translate enough of your website to find it (on http://www.itanica.org/), if it is there.

          Anyway you can send me a link?

          And could you explain more about this statement you made:

          “I am only interested (pro bono) in a good future for Nicas and helping to expose foreign NGOs who are the new “contras”, all over Latin America: They bring millions, but cost billions in lost development. The canal would mean the great historic development opportunity.”

          To me, the Chinese are an NGO so how could it be a great development opportunity? I am confused in understanding what you mean.

          Thanks.

          • Carl Spackler

            Ataia generally seems quite confused, and after re-reading her posts several times, I am still at a loss for what points she is actually trying to make.

            @ Ataia: how easy is it to share a link to this “blog” you are referring to – assuming it exists of course. I too would be fascinated to read about the “whole range of technical and financial discussions and disclosures”, in particular to learn about these “top level financial regulation agencies and top level scientific organizations” you speak of.

            On your above posts re. China and Singapore’s greatness: I presume you are attempting to make the point that because the canal is being built by a Chinese developer (government?) that they will succeed given the Chinese “can-do” DNA as evidenced by the ultramodern metropolis of Singapore and China’s extensive rail network? If that is the case then I hope see how flawed and logically incoherent that argument is. No one would dispute that Chinese have an amazing work-ethic and can build some of the best rail networks in the world. However, this in no way prepares them to take on the magnitude of this project in a completely foreign country – the fact is, outside of some railroads and minuscule transport and civil projects in Africa, China and its SOE contractors have zero experience in a) central America; and b) in civil/earthmoving/waterworks projects of this magnitude (rail is a completely different, and frankly, very simple asset class). Based on what we have observed so far they are woefully unprepared and lack any shred of technical, environmental, social, or financial expertise.

            I pray that this project does not get off the ground because it will be an environmental and social disaster…

          • gcblues

            she is an italian morris.

          • Ken Morris

            Fuck you George, completely gratuitous and mean. You are a gringo gestapo.

          • gcblues

            “fuck you George, you are gratuitous and mean”. lol. too funny. Gestapo, do some history reading. your civil posts of destruction and degradation of human freedom cause me to think you are projecting morris. you talk out your ass like italia. see below re: rio san juan.

          • Ken Morris

            Actually, Bully, I wrote a book on human freedom. And your contribution? Insulting anyone and everyone who doesn’t subscribe to your grammatically- and logically-deprived mobid drivel.

            As for Italia, who you gratuitously equate me with, I’m appreciating her posts while reserving judgment. She’s pouring on some interesting facts (an emphasis you might want to attend to one day when you have the leisure), but I haven’t made up my mind yet about them. She seems to be coming from a background understanding of what European governments and NGOs are doing, and this is new to most of us, but I honestly can’t figure it all out yet or know whether or to what extent I agree.

            For the moment, I’m just paying attention to her with an open mind, although I realize that would be too much for you. You already know The Truth in your own mind and just want to bully others into aquiescencing to your aggressive claims to dominate.

            Did I mention fuck you? If not, let me modify that. Instead, do the honorable thing and end your misery. Really, you contribute nothing but hate. I could give a flip that you parrot opinions from the right. Others on the right sometimes have opinions worth listening to. You never have one. You’re a hate-filled bully.

          • gcblues

            lol, i hear an echo from a totalitarian left wing parrot. sorry Morris, you are not dragging me down to your level. i stay on point.

          • itaia

            Get up to date: While you slept, the Brazilians moved more earth from 2011 to 2014 then has been moved for the Panama canal, to divert water from the Xingu river in the Amazon to power the turbines of the world’s third largest hidroelectric dam – Belo Monte. The Brazilian built the worlds largest 30 years ago – Itaipu, and the Chinese built the Big Gorges hidroelectric dam on the Yellow River – number two in the world. You have no idea about major development projects which the Chinese and the Brazilians built in Africa under far more difficult conditions. If the Brazilians can build Itaipu and Belo Monte, and the Chinese the Big Gorges dam – any group of experienced specialists – American, European, Asiatic, Brazilian can build a 172 mile canal. The Brazilians built hydroelectric dams in Angola and develop major mining and agricultural projects in Mozambique – take a look where that is at. Remember, the USA still needs the old Soyuz rockets developed by the Soviets in the 1960’s to get real stuff and alive scientists up to the International Space Station, and (unfortunately) Kalashnikov (developed by a Russian locksmith in the 1970’s) is still the most used firearm worldwide.

          • gcblues

            woopee. all known. all w/ probs.

          • Carl Spackler

            Again, your drivel is incoherent, non-sensical and irrelevant to the discussion at hand. It also just highlights how naive and, frankly, given the nature of your posts so far, mentally slow you are. It is not worth the 7 minutes of my time to respond and explain to you in a monosyllabic fashion why your arguments make no sense.

            The simple question to you still remains: do share this “link” to a “blog” that contains the facts you speak of.

          • itaia

            If you want the response of the Wang enterprise to the “concern” of the U.S. Embassy – why not contact the pertinent public relations officer at the embassy? They keep up with all, repeat all details concerning the project. And perhaps the embassy just “had” to publish “concern” to cover its flank: Obviously there are major U.S. business interest who quietly favor the canal: The ports of Houston, New Orleans, Mobile, Tampa would gain a real competitive boost by the short route via Nicaragua – especially for U.S. agricultural exports from the U.S heartland. The West Coast ports are connected from the heartland by overburdened rail networks, The sailing time to Asia would be cut by over one day, plus a canal in Nicaragua would be a spare in case of problems of the Panama canal. It’s interesting to note – that the “media” in the U.S. is not watching the issue, only the blogs of the “environmentalists” and some scientific groups. Only the “exp pats” worrying about their “exotic” escape venues in Nicaragua are flapping their wings!

          • jahjan

            did you not see that the Chinese concession includes a golf resort among other resorts – to which, I would guess, Chinese tourists would be major patrons – so what’s the difference between expats and Chinese influxation – how can you dis existing expats when we know there will be Chinese coming in?

          • itaia

            Ever seen Chinese wasting time on pushing little balls into holes ? They will not come in any appreciable numbers to Nicaragua. Tourists will be from North America – the same as now, although more and younger. The Chinese crowd Vienna/Austria and all major European tourist centers. Why would they come to Nicaragua to see the Miskito swamps ? They got tigers in South East Asia…

          • jahjan

            you are something else! very funny.

          • jahjan

            although, I have encountered quite a few of them in SJO, rude ones too, sorry to say.

          • erictan

            Cuz a Nicaraguan passport would be a nice thing to have.

          • itaia

            Did you ever try to travel with a Nicaraguan passport to anywhere outside Central America ? Virtually anybody who invests a certain amount (not certain how much it is now) and promises to employ ten people in the United States can get the permanent resident visa. But Chinese with money invest in Canada and get the citizenship. Any Chinese “family” that runs a business in China has investments in the USA or Canada: They pool the money and that is how they can buy expensive real estate in Canada (Vancouver) or Los Angeles, California. Especially rental communties and luxury highrise apartment buildings. But especially Chinese “all you can eat for $10” places in American strip malls.
            Do not hold you breath waiting for “experienced” Chinese to buy much private property in Nicaragua. They might become partners in hotels or a few might run restaurants as a sideline, while managing their import-export business in China. But the little exoctic get-aways are always be “owned” by U.S. expats who have limited horizons. (You know how many U.S. expats got burned by buying “property” Costa Rica. A small-town mentality ego-trip. )

          • erictan

            China’s high-speed rail network doesn’t make any money, and the trains aren’t allowed to go full speed due to the catastrophic accident a few years back. Not long after the accident, major construction problems were found along seven high-speed rail lines, and I’m quite sure these problems haven’t been fixed yet. The high-speed rail network is a prestige, bragging-rights project for China, just as the canal could be.
            The one thing we all must remember is that all environmental impact studies have never been made available to the public. It’s obvious big money has made things happen, but I bet the regular folks in Nicaragua will see no benefit at all. Just like things are done in China.

          • gcblues

            a more correct term would be GOE, Government owned enterprise.

          • gcblues
          • itaia

            The Wang enterprise is an international investment BUSINESS, managed by Wang who is a Chinese (worth $ 5 billion himself) and is not an NGO Non Government Organization – like example “IBIS” of Denmark is an NGO, its gets money from the Governments of Germany, Finland, Switzerland, Luxenburg and Netherlands and uses its “covers” in Nicaragua : Fondo de Gobernabilidad Democratica, and Centro Alexander von Humboldt to finance hundreds of “groups” in Nicaragua that oppose the government of Nicaragua, any government in Nicaragua that gets “too damn uppity independent” against the control by the USA: If Bolanos would have started the canal – the USA would have also opposed it – by using “IBIS” Get up to date – the CIA no longer uses “Contras” from Miami, but now “activists” of NGOs – from Europe, like the Danes who run “Ibis”: This avoid suspicion. But “IBIS” was exposed for conspiracy in Bolivia en expelled as a subversive operation. If you want the response of the Wang enterprise in Hon Kong to the “concern” of the U.S. Embassy – why not contact the Wang company site and ask for the text ?

          • itaia

            Alright: Simply type in the search sentence: HKND GROUP RESPONDS TO THE STATEMENT ON JAN 6/15 BY U.S. EMBASSY IN NICARAGUA. (Although I did first notice it in the blog “nicaraguaymas” published by the labor journalists Giorgie Trucci).

          • itaia

            I have no connection to this “itanica.org” – never knew about them until you mentioned it ! I am strictly private, no connections: The Lone Rangeress… and Nicaragua is only one area that I watch.

  • itaia

    All the dicussions about the squabbles between Ticos and Nicas and the worries of U.S. expats (or mini-neo-colonialists) seem like a turmoil in a daycare center (either infant or “senior”). The GORILLA may eventually lose patience with it all – but not as in the days of Smedley Butler back a hundred years ago, or the “campaign” of Colonel Oliver North. But there is the sneaky suspicion- that “interests” in the United States actually could favor the canal: Big money is worldwide today and interwoven : Ask Mitt Romney who has “accounts” not only in the British Cayman Islands… Or the Bush dynasty, or even the “Madeleine Albright Group” that even is interested in the telephone company in Kosovo…has and has an “investment advisor” (Joschka Fischer) who in the 1970 belonged to Germany’s extreme-left “Union of Terror and Destruction” specialized on attacking police and had ties to the “Bader Meinhof” terrorist gang that killed a number of U.S. military and civilians in Germany. Sheldon Adelman makes his billions in Macau/China on gambling and wants to finance Jeb Bush for President 2016. In fact the canal would greatly benefit U.S. competitiveness in Asia by providing less expensive transport of U.S. exports from the East Coast, but especially the Guld ports – Houston, New Orleans, Mobile, Tampa. The canal would be financed by stock raised on stock exchanges. The Chinese will never be able nor interested to “defend” the canal and it is evident, that the U.S. could readily seize the canal. The canal would even provide a shorter route for the U.S. Navy between the Caribbean and the Pacific. Therfore: What is the Gorilla really thinking ? Obviously the U.S. Embassy has to “voice concerns” to keep the “environmentalists” from going berserk. But in the end: What will U.S. “business” want ? It has nothing to lose and something to gain by having another canal at its disposition and with a shorter route between half of the U.S. and the world’s most important economic region: Asia.

  • itaia

    Jan. 20. the British daily “Guardian”, with wide international readership, published a long article about the canal titled “Land of Opportunity”. The journalist traveled the whole stretch of the proposed canal from the Pacific to the Caribbean. First class journalism, which also provides some insights and some revelations which can be read between the lines – such as that some of the construction equipment would come from the U.S. – Another item appeared in a blog published, by a German academic, mentions the names of the Nicaraguan engineering companies who are already participating in the initial work, including furnishing the construction workers. Slowly is dawns that most of Nicaragua’s business community wants the canal, and that there are also a variety of U.S. business interests that would be involved and also eventually benefit after the completion. Wang has also accounts in the British Cayman Islands – just like Mitt Romney. Thus you never know who may be eventually involved in the financing and the later stream of income… The important thing now would be to assure all those who would have to move – that the Wang group as well as the nation will take care of satisfactory compensation, and perhaps even provide some additional perks to those families!

    • islandboy28

      Why do the Chinese always want to squander there money around.always using there dollars as a bully measure.why do the Nicaraguans up in the capital feel they can bully the people of the coast of the country into doing what ever when they dont even threat the people of the coast weather it be the direct decendents of the native indians of the country or the black and mestizo occupants equal as the rich ass holes who are up in central nicaragua it should be up to the people of the coast to determine if the Chinese should come and fuck there land up .all indigenous people of the coast indian black and mestizo should form there own government. And break away from the corrupt government and start their own nation with in a nation

      • gcblues

        actually there are some areas the central government has no control over. if you look below and above you can read some pseudo intellectualism about how the central govt has the right to do to people what they do not want all in the name of helping them out of poverty which it will not do. over and over they spout stupid collectivist crapola as if it is functional somewhere. here you make a post with grammar and spelling errors making more sense than phony useless academics with their inexperienced mussing about what should be. what they are is insulting, cruel and dangerous.

      • itaia

        Look – the indigenous and ethnic issue exists in probably at least 100 nations – including the USA, Canada, and even in Europe where nations began to form a thousand years ago. But the most pragmatic solution is to keep the nation together: Where is the separation going to end. There are separatist movements in the USA – Hawaii, Alaska, Puerto Rico, the Mohicans in New York state refuse to travel with U.S. passports. In Canada many in Quebec want independence. What do Indians really want, intelligent Indians – they want the anthropologists to get out off their lifes and link up with the 21st century, Take the half an hour and watch the video documentary made by a Indian journalist for other Indians (not for whites). It has English subtitels, Search as SANDRA TERENA BREAKING THE SILENCE . There is also a highly recommened documentary made in the USA – look for A KIND HEARTED WOMAN PBS -about the reality of reservation life in the USA and also about the conflicts withing Native American societies. Nevertheless, Indians can do everything: The U.S. Indian Health Service with 2,000 physicians and a budget of $ 4 billion is headed by a Sioux women from the Rosebud Reservation in South Dakato: Prof. Dr. Yvette Roubideau. In Venezuela the Ministers for Indian Affairs is herself an Indian, the attorney ALHOJA NUNES (look for youtube news video under that name). The most famous living composer of romantic Latin music is a Maya Indian in Mexico: You already heared his compositions sung by Elvis, Sinatra, and every adult Nica has and know many of his romantic boleros: Search for the youtube video DOMINGO MANZANERO ADORO (he even sings part of it in Maya ).

        • itaia

          Correction: ALOHA NUNEZ, the previous Minister for Indian Affairs in Venezuela was also an Indian female attorney Nicia Maldonado. She is now governor of a state. It;s time to ask Indian women what they want, Most don’t want to spend their life in hut and planting corn.

  • Marwinyah Peazo

    China NOT Behind The Nicaragua Canal, Says Costa Rican President Solís

    http://www.qcostarica.com/china-not-behind-the-nicaragua-canal-says-costarican-president-solis/

    • gcblues

      yeah, the New York Times believed the Soviets for years too. guess that makes Solis just as stupid as the New York Times, for years the Soviet’s mouthpiece.

      • dalepues

        I googled your NYT Soviet mouthpiece quote, and FrontPage Magazine popped up. Who is FrontPage Magazine? Well, this should help, from Wiki, of course.
        FPM’s Person(s) of the Year:

        FPM’s 2011 “Man of the Year” was the Wounded Warrior Project.[2]

        FPM’s 2010 “Person of the Year” was the Tea Party Movement.[3]

        FPM’s 2009 “Man of the Year” was radio and then-Fox News host Glenn Beck.[4]

        • gcblues

          too bad you are a wikki child. google WALTER DURANTY who wrote for the NYTs and won a pulitzer for his lies. of if you are lazy watch the vid.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGOCGrhRhsE

          • dalepues

            Too bad? I don’t think so. Wikipedia is a good source for information. Not the only or final source, but a good place to start for basic facts. Walter Duranty got his Pulitzer in 1932, was discovered to have invented and avoided information while stationed in Moscow, which was acknowledged by the Times. You’ll have to dig deeper and produce evidence more current than 1932 to bolster your claim that the Times is a Soviet mouthpiece. You might start here:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Duranty

          • gcblues

            excuse me. the USSR is long gone. they were supporters as FDR was a supporter. the NYT’s supported Durantys lies for many years and never returned the Pulitzer. i do not need to dig at all. nor do i find wiki reliable. the NYTs to this day is a dem smear machine. recall McCains phantom mistress? that recent enough for you. they do have the largest correction page in the biz and are fairly labeled as far left. they were Joe Stalin’s mouth piece but he died in the 40’s so asking for recent support is kinda silly.

  • Guest

    OVERNMENT OF THE NATION IN OUR MOTHER EARTH Miskitu

    Honorable Brothers and Sisters of the world

    By Means of this Declaration and Protest, We send you news of the feeling and pain that we live in the flesh, by the government of President Daniel Ortega Saavedra, a government, Sandinista, Socialist, Marxist, Leninist terrorist and dictator. It is time to stop, speaking about the wrongs done to natives of the world in the past when the opportunity is here right now, to create a better world and respect the right of living things on the earth, especially people who have a right to life on their own territories, their alienable rights!
    We send our plight to all world leaders and people , who love peace, justice, freedom and truth, to know the truth of what is happening in our lands, lands inherited from our ancestors and these are the main points.

    1-That the Sr.Ortega has no authorization of the true Miskitu leaders and true heirs of the royal families that exist in our Mother Earth, to grant concessions to the Chinese investors to build the canal or any other concessions our lands.

    2- authorization signatures gotten by the Sandinista government was through coercion and corrupt indigenous leaders (Sandinista) under his command, since they won in the 2010 elections fraud and paying large amounts of dollars.

    3- In a speech Daniel Ortega spoke this sentence. “whether you want it or not THE CANAL IS to be built.” A phrase like that of the Sandinista commandant 32years, now deceased Tomas Martinez Borges said: “we are willing to remove every last Indian Miskito provided Sandinista take the Costa Atlantica.” Tomas Borges February 18th 1981. This is happening in our land today.

    4-Daniel Ortega S. made a law called the National Property Law, with this new law feels the absolute owner of all Nicaragua and makes decisions without consent of the Miskito nations, breaking the universal law of native indigenous peoples of the world, decreed by the organizations of the United nations UN also recognisado by, the Commision Del Mundo De-protecting Areas (WCPA) and The World Conservation Union (IUCN).

    5- With this new law he instigates Pacific settlers to invade the lands of the Miskitu, Creoles, Sumu, Ramas Guarifanas, and Afrocendentes, for these reasons there have been many deaths, injuries, kidnappings, torture, rape, burning of home ectra …

    6- We want more choices not Nicaragua political parties in our lands, because all from them is a hoax, they’ve lied to us for many years.

    7- Like our ancestors before, we want to chose our own leaders. we do not want more corrupt leaders, manipulators, hand picked by the Sandinista government.

    8- We’ve had enough of the exploitation of our natural resources, the Government of Nicaragua has been exploiting our resources, leaving us in a desert in our lands. What’s there to eat for our children, grandchildren, great grandchildren, us today? What future do we have?The Lady Rosario Murillo since ten years ago, lives exploiting our precious wood, coordinated with the Venezuelan Companies (ALBA-FOREST), deforestation, foreigners can, they can exploit our natural resources, but the legitimate owners can not get even one stone, wood, fish, shellfish fruits … This is dictatorship, genocide, ethonicide!

    9- We do not want the Ortega government forcibly subjecting the youth of our nation Miskitu to, Sandinista Popular Army, Sandinista Police, etc …

    10- The owners entrepreneurs lobster boats and the government of Nicaragua to enrich themselves have killed thousands of Miskitu divers and leaving thousands of divers with disabilities (decompression syndrome), without giving any training, decompression chamber, these divers are inhumanly destroyed without the Nicaraguan governments worry about their cases, so criminal is what they have done and are doing.

    We demand that the Sandinista government for these criminal living acts done to our people.
    We want a real democracy, justice, peace, love, and freedom. We ask all world leaders that reading, seeing, or hearing this message of a forgotten people, a people who expected freedom like many people who have had freedom and by the grace of our God Almighty, who support us, to help us wake up from this nightmare that we are living.

    The true leaders, village elders from all communities, and royal family, we who live in our home land and abroad, also that the government of the Miskitu nation in exile, is supporting, working with us led by the Reverend.(in exile) Josephenie Hendy Robertson, Matriarch of the Nation Miskitu , Princess Monica Hendy W Ercell Valcina Fleurima, activist, and many more of the nation Miskitu in the US and elsewhere.

    Developed by the true leaders of the nation Miskito, Sumu-Mayagnas, Creoles, Prinzus, Guarifanas and Afrocendentes the 11th day of February, 2015, year of democracy and the mighty hand of God Almighty.
    Thank you
    The Miskitu Nation
    http:www.Miskitu-nation.com

  • Valcina Fleurima

    GOVERNMENT OF THE NATION IN OUR MOTHER EARTH Miskitu

    Honorable Brothers and Sisters of the world

    By Means of this Declaration and Protest, We send you news of the feeling and pain that we live in the flesh, by the government of President Daniel Ortega Saavedra, a government, Sandinista, Socialist, Marxist, Leninist terrorist and dictator. It is time to stop, speaking about the wrongs done to natives of the world in the past when the opportunity is here right now, to create a better world and respect the right of living things on the earth, especially people who have a right to life on their own territories, their alienable rights!
    We send our plight to all world leaders and people , who love peace, justice, freedom and truth, to know the truth of what is happening in our lands, lands inherited from our ancestors and these are the main points.

    1-That the Sr.Ortega has no authorization of the true Miskitu leaders and true heirs of the royal families that exist in our Mother Earth, to grant concessions to the Chinese investors to build the canal or any other concessions our lands.

    2- authorization signatures gotten by the Sandinista government was through coercion and corrupt indigenous leaders (Sandinista) under his command, since they won in the 2010 elections fraud and paying large amounts of dollars.

    3- In a speech Daniel Ortega spoke this sentence. “whether you want it or not THE CANAL IS to be built.” A phrase like that of the Sandinista commandant 32years, now deceased Tomas Martinez Borges said: “we are willing to remove every last Indian Miskito provided Sandinista take the Costa Atlantica.” Tomas Borges February 18th 1981. This is happening in our land today.

    4-Daniel Ortega S. made a law called the National Property Law, with this new law feels the absolute owner of all Nicaragua and makes decisions without consent of the Miskito nations, breaking the universal law of native indigenous peoples of the world, decreed by the organizations of the United nations UN also recognisado by, the Commision Del Mundo De-protecting Areas (WCPA) and The World Conservation Union (IUCN).

    5- With this new law he instigates Pacific settlers to invade the lands of the Miskitu, Creoles, Sumu, Ramas Guarifanas, and Afrocendentes, for these reasons there have been many deaths, injuries, kidnappings, torture, rape, burning of home ectra …

    6- We want more choices not Nicaragua political parties in our lands, because all from them is a hoax, they’ve lied to us for many years.

    7- Like our ancestors before, we want to chose our own leaders. we do not want more corrupt leaders, manipulators, hand picked by the Sandinista government.

    8- We’ve had enough of the exploitation of our natural resources, the Government of Nicaragua has been exploiting our resources, leaving us in a desert in our lands. What’s there to eat for our children, grandchildren, great grandchildren, us today? What future do we have?The Lady Rosario Murillo since ten years ago, lives exploiting our precious wood, coordinated with the Venezuelan Companies (ALBA-FOREST), deforestation, foreigners can, they can exploit our natural resources, but the legitimate owners can not get even one stone, wood, fish, shellfish fruits … This is dictatorship, genocide, ethonicide!

    9- We do not want the Ortega government forcibly subjecting the youth of our nation Miskitu to, Sandinista Popular Army, Sandinista Police, etc …

    10- The owners entrepreneurs lobster boats and the government of Nicaragua to enrich themselves have killed thousands of Miskitu divers and leaving thousands of divers with disabilities (decompression syndrome), without giving any training, decompression chamber, these divers are inhumanly destroyed without the Nicaraguan governments worry about their cases, so criminal is what they have done and are doing.

    We demand that the Sandinista government for these criminal living acts done to our people.
    We want a real democracy, justice, peace, love, and freedom. We ask all world leaders that reading, seeing, or hearing this message of a forgotten people, a people who expected freedom like many people who have had freedom and by the grace of our God Almighty, who support us, to help us wake up from this nightmare that we are living.

    The true leaders, village elders from all communities, and royal family, we who live in our home land and abroad, also that the government of the Miskitu nation in exile, is supporting, working with us led by the Reverend.(in exile) Josephenie Hendy Robertson, Matriarch of the Nation Miskitu , Princess Monica Hendy W Ercell Valcina Fleurima, activist, and many more of the nation Miskitu in the US and elsewhere.

    Developed by the true leaders of the nation Miskito, Sumu-Mayagnas, Creoles, Prinzus, Guarifanas and Afrocendentes the 11th day of February, 2015, year of democracy and the mighty hand of God Almighty.
    Thank you
    The Miskitu Nation
    http:www.Miskitu-nation.com

    • gcblues

      funny Morris says you are poverty stricken and need gubmint projects as your only hope for development. wonder what he cooks up to counter the world court declaration of genocide against the Miskitu nation. frankly the dorm room bullshit sessions in support of the canal do not come close to the rhetorical power of this single post. yeah yeah. i know. fuck me. i am a bully. it is me supporting land theft. uh huh. you betcha.

      • Valcina Fleurima

        Morris and GCblues,be blessed and better informed. If you have a million dollars in the bank, and some one is using that money from your bank account and they have stopped from being able to to prevent it, would you be poverty stricken? Or a Victim of a crime? And as a victim crime would you not report it? Try any way to stop it!
        History:The Miskitu were never conquered by the Spaniards nor are we poverty stricken. Daniel Ortega and China are trespassing on Miskitu Land illegally with threats and death.
        Ortega is digging uranium selling it to Iran from the Mines in Rosario and taking out our gold from Bonanza mines. There are also Fishing companies forcing our divers to fish for shell fish for extreme amounts of time and crippling us with “the Bend” There are decompression chambers but they are not used on the Miskitu divers..’
        Young Girls as young as nine are being turned into prostitutes and the some of the boys work for the drug cartels.
        Drug Cartels, who in the Nineties helped Ortega buy his Military equipment while they transported drugs through the Miskitu, where they fired upon whole innocent families and anyone who told them they cant come do that through our coasts or our lands. Ortega and the FSLN government looked the other way.
        Now, He is getting arms from Russia, a canal built by Communist China, FSLN is not a democracy and they are at the US backdoor.
        With amount of Natural resources he has stolen from the Miskitu Nation; Do you really think that after three terms and all the gold, silver, uranium, shell fish, fruit trees, lumber, pearls, oil and semi precious stones Ortega, Rosario Murillo not be able to raise Nicaraguan standard of living? We The Miskitu Nation are being raped and violated, not just physically, but financially, emotionally and are being starved! We are not allowed to fish, pick our fruits, have our own voice, develop, because it gets sabotaged!
        Understand that?
        In past the British , US, Spaniards, and the Pope, since first, started dealing with us, have and continue to help them selves to our abundant natural resources. We made arrangements and agreed to trade but with the stipulation that you respect the land and its inhabitants, that for every Mahogany and Cedar tree, they plant three more, not kill for sport and let live as god intended.
        In the beging, when Christianity was presented to us, we chose Moravian religion over, because it was more like ours an unseen god, no the Pope’s religion, nor British protestant, that is when those colonial powers in retaliation, gave away our land to the five republics of Central America and left us with what we have now.
        Now, poverty stricken or not who gives any human being the right to start building on some one else’s land without their permission or at gunpoint with out any compensation?!
        Yet, you dare open your mouth and tell another human being to shut their mouth while an intruder enters their home and rapes his daughter and wife and in the process cuts off his manhood.” Then you tell them say ,”thank you very much and forget it?”
        Damn be us to fight, protect and protest our rights to our share of the planet, Land we’ve been on since the beginning beginning beginning beginning beginning of time?

        We the Miskitu Nation demand our right, poverty stricken or blissful wealthy or dead in our coffins!

        • gcblues

          for the record, morris and i are opposites. i think the sate has no right to take any property for the cal scam. morris supports it with wishy washy nuance

          • Valcina Fleurima

            okay Gcblues, Have a great rest of the week.

          • gcblues

            ual y suerte

        • Rose Ckiara

          Russian fleet takes the US in the ring

          Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu visited Iran and India, while the Federation Council Speaker Valentina Matviyenko visited Nicaragua. It was Russia’s participation in the construction of the transatlantic link, which has important military and strategic importance. This is a response to the challenges thrown by the US Russia in Ukraine.Americans are concerned.

          Military cooperation with Iran

          In the context of growing confrontation with the West have to meet increasing its military presence in the various regions of the world. We must look for allies who are ready to provide for Russian ships, submarines, aircraft maintenance base.

          In addition, these allies need to protect against possible American aggression, direct or maydanovskomu type. For example, the supply of weapons, including best to provide technological and mental binding. Training of cadets, including in police schools, the construction of plants for the production of weapons.

          Sergei Shoigu January 20 in Tehran signed with his Iranian counterpart an agreement on military-technical cooperation, thus opening the green light to the resumption of negotiations on the supply of missile systems S-300. The implementation of this agreement was frustrated because Russian President Medvedev’s accession in 2010 to Sanctions against Iran for the development of their nuclear program.

          Sergei Shoigu said that Russia and Iran, there are “common challenges and threats in the region, which can resist only by working together.” West was not directly named among these threats, but it is understandable why Russia complicate relations with the Americans, already teetering on the brink of war.

          The Iranian side was bolder. IRNA news agency called the visit Shoigu “an outstanding event.” “Iran and Russia will be able to resist the expansionist claims and greed of the United States within the framework of cooperation, interaction and activation of potential strategic opportunities” – Iranian Defense Minister Hossein Dehghan.

          Probably, it is about taking Iran to the Shanghai Cooperation Organization (SCO analogue of NATO as an organization is said in the West), where the country until an observer status. This opportunity will appear once the sanctions against Iran will be removed (in the charter says that State that is subject to the sanctions regime, a full member of the SCO can not be).

          SCO observer is and India, where after Iran went Shoigu. India accounts for nearly a third of Russian arms exports. Prime Nareandra Modi during President Putin’s visit in December specifically stressed that Russia “remains the most important partner of India in the field of defense and security.”

          He emphasized the national feelings of the Indians, including by reducing the value of the English language and the Anglo-Saxon influence of the elite and the desire to build a “just society”. Very similar to the Russian sovereign political line, which merges with the vision of WORLD ORDER in another part of the world – Latin America.

          On a visit to another ally of Russia and not potential, or rather – Nicaraguan President Daniel Ortega, went Federation Council Speaker Valentina Matviyenko. She thanked the leadership of Nicaragua for their continued support “initiatives of Russia” in the international arena.

          Last year, a lot of noise caused a Shoigu statement that Russia intends to build military bases in Nicaragua, Cuba, Venezuela and Argentina. And although then Minister minimized statement, saying that it is a bases maintenance of warships and aircraft, but everyone understands that the ultimate goal is just military bases.

          Treaties establishing the database maintenance signed with Nicaragua and Vietnam. “Russian” polite people “may appear in the near future in Nicaragua. China is building in the country channel that actually change the entire world trade, due to competition with the US-controlled Panama Canal” – wrote the former Deputy Prime Minister of the Republic of Crimea Rustam Temirgaliev in to Facebook. – This channel will soon become the center geopolitcheskogo confrontation, and not bad at all, that this time the borders of the United States, not Russia. ”

          Edition International Business Times reported that the US is concerned about the project because of the lack of transparency in the 50-billion-dollar project, farmed out to China (HKND Group) without a tender and technical justification.

          However, the construction of the century began, and it will be the cornerstone of a multipolar world without hegemony. Russia will acquire influence in the region and will provide an implementation strategy Soviet Navy as a major deterrent of the United States.Experts Douglas Farah and Liana Eustasia Reyes of BI Consultants Washington in ArticleRussia in Latin America: The Strategic Challenge (Russia in Latin America – a strategic challenge) argue that “Russia now has greater influence in Latin America, more than ever before even at the height of the Cold War. ”

          See also:

          Putin has put Obama Latin mat (translation of the article Russia in Latin America: The Strategic Challenge )

          Putin has a plan on how to reconcile the two Koreas

          Alexander Zhebin Korea trust Russia as an honest broker and peacemaker

          Sergei Shoigu: will increase the combat potential of force groupings in all strategic directions

          Military bases and Russian influence in Latin America

          This effect is based on the “support network”, with no support for Cuba with its traditional hostility to the United States and the countries of the block ALBA (Bolivia, Cuba, Ecuador, Nicaragua, Dominican Republic, Antigua and Barbuda, Saint Vincent and the Grenadines and St. -Lyusiya – Ed.), who seek to jointly destroy the system of military doctrine and American security in the region. The goal – to weaken its economic and cultural ties with this country, whose policy is seen as an attempt to “decolonize” Latin America.

          “The Putin government provides countries with ALBA weapons, training, equipment and technology for the police, nuclear technologies and equipment for oil exploration, financial assistance and support in influential UN Security Council and other international forums.” In turn, these countries will eliminate Russia from international isolation, the authors write.

          The main lever of influence of Russia, writes Farah and Reyes, is the sale of arms. This is the “hundreds of thousands” of new machines Kalashnikov AK-47, it’s tanks, helicopters, missiles and supersonic fighters “ground-to-ground.” Russia last sold in the last three years, three thousand pieces, with the main buyer of Venezuela with orders for $ 13 billion in 2007-2011, note the authors.

          There are other levers – financial. Cuba Russia forgave 90 percent of the debt of the former Soviet Union, Brazil, Russian President promised to help establish a credit organization that would “oppose the World Bank.” The American experts note the growing influence of Putin in El Salvador, where “many high-ranking officials say in Russian and publicly declare readiness to harmonize their policies with Putin’s Russia. ”

          In Nicaragua, Daniel Ortega, Putin promised to take under the protection of “an ambitious, multi-billion dollar project” construction of the canal. “In Argentina, Putin and Kirchner signed an agreement on” strategic alliance “, the article says.

          The authors’ conclusion: “Functioning in both hemispheres democratic system replaced by a toxic mix of anti-democratic values, corruption and doctrines based on the totalitarian model and harboring terrorism.”

          Another conclusion is difficult to expect from Farah and Reyes, but he says that Russia is really moving in the right direction.

  • Valcina Fleurima

    Morris and GCblues,be blessed and better informed. If you have a million dollars in the bank, and some one is using that money from your bank account and they have stopped you from being able to to prevent it, would you be poverty stricken? Or a Victim of a crime? And as a victim crime would you not report it? Try any way to stop it!?
    Here is a bit of Miskitu History:The Miskitu were never conquered by the Spaniards nor were/are we poverty stricken. Daniel Ortega and China are trespassing on Miskitu Land illegally with threats and death.
    Ortega is digging uranium selling it to Iran from the Mines in Rosario Miskitu territory and taking out our gold from Bonanza mines, Miskitu territory. There are also Fishing companies forcing our divers to fish for shell fish for extreme amounts of time and crippling us with “the Bend” There are decompression chambers but they are not used on the Miskitu divers..’
    Young Girls as young as nine are being turned into prostitutes and the some of the boys work for the drug cartels.
    Drug Cartels, who in the Nineties helped and funded Ortega’s re-election and buy his Military equipment while they transported drugs through the Miskitu Coast and territory, where the people where fired upon, whole innocent families and anyone who told them they “cant come do that through our coasts or our lands. and Ortega and the FSLN government looked the other way.
    ” Not to mention Tomas Borges, Daniel Ortega and the FSLN Massacre of Our people in the late Seventies,eighties and Nineties.
    Now, He is getting arms from Russia, a canal built by Communist China, FSLN is not a democracy and they are at the US backdoor.
    With amount of Natural resources he has stolen from the Miskitu Nation; Do you really think that after three terms and all the gold, silver, uranium, shell fish, fruit, lumber, pearls, oil and semi precious stones… Ortega, Rosario Murillo would not be able to raise Nicaraguan standard of living? We The Miskitu Nation are being raped and violated, not just physically, but financially, emotionally and are being starved, genocide, exterminated! We are not allowed to fish, pick our fruits, have our own voice, develop, because it gets sabotaged!
    Understand that?
    In past the British , US, Spaniards, and the Pope, since first, started dealing with us, have and continue to help them selves to our abundant natural resources. We made arrangements and agreed to trade but with the stipulation that you respect the land and its inhabitants, that for every Mahogany and Cedar tree, they plant three more, not kill for sport and let live as god intended.
    In the beginning, when Christianity was presented to us, we chose Moravian religion over, because it was more like ours an unseen god, no the Pope’s religion, nor British protestant, that is when those colonial powers in retaliation, gave away our land to the five republics of Central America and left us with what we have now.
    Now, poverty stricken or not who gives any human being the right to start building on some one else’s land without their permission or at gunpoint with out any compensation?!
    Yet, you dare open your mouth and tell another human being to shut their mouth while an intruder enters their home and rapes his daughter and wife and in the process cuts off his manhood.” Then you tell them say ,”thank you very much and forget it?”
    Damn be us to fight, protect and protest our rights to our share of the planet, Land we’ve been on since the beginning beginning beginning beginning beginning of time!

    We the Miskitu Nation demand our right, poverty stricken or blissful wealthy or dead in our coffins! Also so note that when that disastrous canal is displacing not only Miskitu,but neighboring Central American countries, it’s the United States, Mexico and Canada that we will seek refuge in your land.